EP # 135 Handling Survivors Guilt

Robb (: 00:01

And welcome to another show of Don't Get This Twisted. I am Rob along with my cohost as always, Tina. How you doing, Tina?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 00:07

I'm doing good, Rob. How are you doing? How you do? Right. I have to go to work so it's not my day off, but we're not doing this on the weekend.

Robb (: 00:09

I'm not too shabby for a day off.

Hmm. Well, it usually isn't for me. No, no, no. But we're gonna eat tomorrow, correct? Isn't that the plan? Yeah, so we'll see each other in person and actually try to weave this crazy podcast and get a little more in sync with what we're supposed to be doing. We've been throwing it together for the last couple months, so.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 00:22

Yes, yes.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 00:38

I don't know, you know what? I'm getting a lot of feedback that is the as thrown together as it is it the episodes are getting better from what I'm hearing. So yeah.

Robb (: 00:45

Yeah, I've heard the same. So I guess we should take that as, maybe we should just keep throwing it together and see what happens. Yeah, without a net, see, we're like one of those circus performers that work without a net, you know.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 00:52

We work best without a plan.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 01:00

You don't understand how often I hear that circus music playing in my head with my life. It's kind of a theme.

Robb (: 01:04

Yeah. Me too, yeah. You know, there's a lot of fucking clowns around me. Lots of them. So we were talking off the air and wondering what we should talk about today and you brought something up that's around you actually and I think it's a very good subject to talk about. Would you like to tell the story and leave the names out of it?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 01:10

Oh, that's horrible. That is horrible.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 01:32

Yes, yes. I have a friend who was driving down the street and saw a really bad car accident and stopped to see what he could do. Inside the car was, I guess the car had caught on fire and there was people inside the car and he was trying to help them and he couldn't get to them and two of the girls that were in the car died and they were pregnant.

Robb (: 02:02

Yikes.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 02:02

and he tried and tried as he could. I guess he got burnt because of the, you know, trying to get them out. But it just, it happened so fast and he did everything that he could do. And unfortunately, the girls, the girls passed. This man could not sleep. He, he, it was constantly on his mind. He was having a lot of nightmares for, for the longest time. Couldn't sleep.

And we talked about it a lot, like it was plaguing him, the guilt of him not being able to save these girls that were pregnant and had little souls in their bodies. And we went through this for several months of him having these nightmares, basically. Then he started to get over it and he was subpoenaed to...

have to appear in court, not court, just going through the deposition at this point. And it brought back all of his feelings of guilt. And I don't, I don't want to put this in his, in his mouth, but of an inadequacy that he couldn't, no matter what he tried, he could not save those girls. And he really feels like it was his fault that he couldn't save them or didn't save them. Like he didn't do enough. And

We talked about it and talked about it and I finally said I'm like look as a mom which he doesn't really know me as a mom, but I am a mom and I said if my daughter was in that situation and somebody came to try to save her and that was the last bit of kindness that she saw on this earth I would be so grateful whether she passed or not because

Robb (: 03:36

Mm-hm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 03:56

You know, I couldn't be there to do it. I couldn't be there to console her, but you were there. You were there pushing through trying to get these girls out and there shouldn't be any guilt and there shouldn't be any, you know, just these horrible feelings that he's dealing with. And you know, I guess no matter what I

what I say, we talked about this, no matter what I say, he's still going to have that guilt. He's going to have to walk through that and try to rectify himself. But I look at him so differently than he looks at himself. Like what a hero of a father of a man that would go out of his way for somebody he doesn't even know and put himself in a situation that he put himself in danger to try to save somebody. Like I don't

Robb (: 04:25

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 04:50

I don't see the guilt part. All I see is a heroic person that went through an extreme situation and just couldn't fix it. You know, I tried to talk to him about when a person is supposed to meet their maker, it doesn't matter what happens, you're not going to be able to save them. I think doctors struggle with that. I think a lot of people do. But yeah, it just, it really hurts me to see.

Robb (: 05:12

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 05:20

the survivors guilt that goes with situations like this. And on top of that, I have a father who was in Vietnam and the survivor guilt that he has all these years later, we're talking, he came home when I was a couple of months old. So we're talking almost 53 years of, of survivors guilt from being in Vietnam. Like, when does this end? When does it, when do you get rid of it? How do you get rid of it? How do you.

let yourself off the hook.

Robb (: 05:52

I think in general, it probably never goes away. You're like, these are circumstances that you generally have zero control over, right? You're just trying to either survive, like war survivors, it's very prominent in, you know, why did I come home and, you know, all my friends didn't.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 06:05

Right.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 06:13

Mm-hmm

Robb (: 06:19

we were talking before off the air, I heard 9-11 was just like a horrible, horrible thing for survivor's guilt. The people who made it out of the towers, you know, had to wonder why me. And I think that's the bigger thing. Why me? Why did I do it?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 06:33

Mm-hmm.

And also the people that were not, you know, all the firefighters and people that went into the wreckage to try to save people and didn't come out. And then the ones that did come out, it's got to be a horrendous amount of, of survivor's guilt.

Robb (: 06:52

Yeah, because you're wondering why the guy next to you, because a lot of these people were running in together and were doing the exact same chore and then didn't make it. So I totally understand that. I've read on one a while ago about it was like six people in a car and they all died except for one. And then that person, like five years later, took their life.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 07:01

Right?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 07:16

Hmm

Robb (: 07:21

because they couldn't deal with it. So, you know, I can totally understand where the issue is with your mental state and how you're trying to, you know, deal with the situation after all these things happen.

Taking your life obviously is not the best way of taking care of that because then the survivor's guilt around that and your family. Like why, yeah, why, well you're just continuing a cycle when it comes to that, you know, because then that's the other thing that they talk about. Like why didn't, why couldn't I see what was wrong with them? Why couldn't I prevent it? Why didn't they talk to me?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 07:56

Yeah, where does it end?

Robb (: 08:12

So I think there's lots of survivor's guilt when it comes to lots of different situations. Obviously, seeing a therapist is probably the best way of at least on the surface dealing with it, talking to someone who can take those feelings in and mathematically put them in places to at least push you in the right direction.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 08:40

I would hope. I don't know. I don't, you know, we talk about psychologists a lot and what I'm hearing is that these people don't have their head out of their ass to be able to, to counsel anyone, which is what's making life harder for people that really need it. Like you got to find somebody.

That that says something that hits a nerve with you or hits, you know, it's not just anybody I think it could be a friend. It could be a family member somebody that you respect what they have to say, I guess would be a A better way of looking at it because right now

Robb (: 09:07

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 09:23

I don't know, counselors just aren't, uh, meeting the mark, but I get what you mean. You need to have somebody that, that you could talk to that has some vision that could help get you through all the feelings that go with it for sure.

Robb (: 09:40

Yeah, I think it has to do with like, okay, at least, you know, if you're, if you're talking to your friends, your friends might prompt you to go to see a therapist or vice versa and talk to people that the only way that your mind will stop doing it is if you can get to a level where you realize it wasn't me.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 09:50

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 10:03

Yeah, it has to be a level of resolution for sure.

Robb (: 10:06

Yeah, but I think that, you know, who knows how long that could take. Like you said, with your dad, 50 years later still has some kind of, you know, why did I get to have this life and no one else did? And I don't think that there's a real answer to a time period. It could be some, some people can get past that fairly quickly.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 10:18

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 10:29

even though they do have a survivor's guilt, I think that they find an anchor somewhere else to go, okay, I'm supposed to be doing this. This is why this happened. But it's finding that. And when it comes to therapists, I think that there is, there's a big pool, right? So you have to find the right person to talk to. My friend down the street,

Tina Marie Garcia (: 10:39

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 10:53

has been, has seen therapists for different things over the time and would just complain miserably about ones and then found one that worked. So I think that is something where, like you have to find the person who's going to not sugar coat things, but not, you know, obviously sends you down a different road. So it's that, it's that a balance right between

Tina Marie Garcia (: 11:04

Yeah.

Robb (: 11:23

Yeah, you gotta be told no, but you gotta be told no right. You know what I mean? So, and you know, for your friend, I think that there is something about trying. We can't save everyone. And I think that is the bigger thing, right? You can only do so much. He tried and it didn't happen. And that does...

Tina Marie Garcia (: 11:27

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 11:46

Sorry, I'm gonna be like, my field is my field, but I'm an honest dog. There you go. Hey.

Robb (: 11:51

happen in life. I've seen it times where people who are medical professionals, right, doctors who do these long, like long surgeries and then the patient dies on the table. And these are people who have massive knowledge about how to make sure people live and even they can't do it.

So in the end, I think that you have to step back for a second, look at yourself, and realize I did whatever I could during that time period and it didn't happen. You're not going to get rid of that guilt, but at least you're going to find a level of putting it on a shelf and doing your best not to go back to it.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 12:47

Agree I am In living with my dad and he he's very upfront He's like I've been fucked up since the day I came back from Vietnam and even before Because he was there, you know in Vietnam. He said fucked up. So those are his words not mine and He he was given a Bronze Star which is for heroic actions in

Robb (: 13:06

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 13:17

crisis situations, if I understand that correctly. And, um, he doesn't even know why he got it. You know, like he can't even get to that point where he could see the good that he did because of the survivor's guilt and everything that he has. He, he's like, I don't know why I'm still alive. I don't know why I didn't get blown up. I should have. I was close to it. I was shot at. I went through all these things.

But why am I here? Like, what's the, what is my responsibility? He never got to that. He never figured it out what his responsibility or his role is. And yet if you look at his life, it's so dynamic in very subtle ways. Like, he didn't have to do much, but he's always been in the place where these, you know, these moments have come where he's helped so many and he's been

so much to the family and to his friends and to outside people, you know, in our culture, he's the chief of our tribe and people come to him for council all the time. And he doesn't get it. Like it still doesn't resonate with him that he does have a purpose. You know, he still looks at I don't get it. I don't know why I'm here. You know, I shouldn't be here. It's crazy because we do have talks about it. I talk about

Robb (: 14:25

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 14:41

things probably a lot that most people don't talk about with their with their parents because I talk about everything. So, you know, when I hear him and I'm like, what are you talking about? Like, where do you get this, this distorted, you know, reality from? But I think that that's part of survivor's guilt is you, you're guilty for things that you couldn't possibly change. And I know that's the

Robb (: 15:08

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 15:11

I know that's the case for my friend. I know that's the case for my dad. I don't know, I've never been put in a situation where I felt survivor's guilt, thankfully. But I've always been thankful to be alive. You know, there was, I didn't have the guilt though. If you do what you're supposed to do and you try as hard as you try, you have to be able to let yourself off the hook. And.

You can't take responsibility for something you couldn't control.

Robb (: 15:42

Mm hmm. Yeah. I had a friend who overdosed and I, I didn't have survivor's guilt at all. I did feel bad because of certain things. Um, you know, maybe not taking a phone call or, but I had to step back and realize that, you know, I probably couldn't have changed the outcome, right? Because they didn't want

the outcome to change. So, I had a little guilt, but it wasn't like survivor's guilt, but it was more like, I felt guilty for not taking a phone call here and there, but it was at a time where I just, I was in a different part in life. I had a small child and I had responsibilities to myself, but I can understand why people go through it. It's...

Tina Marie Garcia (: 16:33

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 16:39

It is rough because you just go, man, maybe if I would have just did this, they'd still be here. Or if I would have just did this, they wouldn't have, you know, left to go over here and then this happened. So that I think that's it's human nature to have survivor's guilt. It's, but when you're put in a circumstance like your friend where you're going to watch someone lose their life. When you tried.

There's just there's only so much you can do. I could I hope that I never have to live with such a haunting thing.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 17:08

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 17:19

Yeah.

Robb (: 17:19

because it's one of those things where I can see the cold sweats at night. I could see the bad dreams. I can see waking up going, okay, I should have done better. Unfortunately, you know, life likes to kick you in the nads and it gives you the reality of life, right? It's fragile. It's

Tina Marie Garcia (: 17:45

And that's what I would take away from that. Life is fragile and you have to be kind to each other. And you should definitely try to be graceful in the life that you lead and be a good person, but to feel guilt for something that you didn't do, I just wish that it was easier said than done to let that go because the guilt is so...

It's not fair to have that guilt. It's not...

It's not a rational thought, you know, it's just feelings and emotions that are built up and, and you don't know what to do with them. So you, you push them back onto yourself as a, as like a

Robb (: 18:36

of its coping mechanism.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 18:38

Is it a coping mechanism or is it just a way to you just because you failed, you'd feel like you failed. So you just have to, you just have to take that like you did something wrong when in reality, my friend, my dad, they didn't do anything wrong. They did what they had to do. They did what, what good human beings would do. You know, um, neither of them wanted to be where they were at the time they were going through this either.

They were just in the right place at the wrong time. And they dealt with what they had to deal with. And I think that's commendable because a lot of people wouldn't do that. I kept saying to my friend, I'm like, how many people had their phones out and were recording this? You said in the deposition, they had pictures of you and you didn't realize you had a bloody shirt. Like who was taking the pictures that wasn't helping? Because if everybody was helping, maybe the girls would have gotten out.

Robb (: 19:36

Right. Well, and I think that's a big problem today in general.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 19:37

You know, so.

Yes. So I'm like, why do you feel guilty when you were you weren't taking the pictures you were doing what you needed to do? so it's I don't think that the guilt is rational. Um, but boy is it

Stabilitating.

Robb (: 19:59

Yes, that's it. You know, you're seeing it firsthand. You know, what it can do to your existence. I think that's the bigger thing, right? It's how we see, you know, what's going on as ourself. And then you're seeing it from the outside. I think that could probably even be worse because you're seeing how it can break someone down so quickly.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 20:27

Well, in my dad's case, like, he can't even deal with conflict. Like, he shuts down because he's afraid of his reaction if he reacts. So who knows how he was when he was in Vietnam or what type of situation that he got in where he had to act in a way that scared him. You know, it makes me wonder because he doesn't talk about it so much. But

Robb (: 20:40

Right.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 20:54

It's really been hard to deal with a man that won't talk to you because he doesn't want to get any sort of rage in him out of what is it? Is it fear? Is it is it guilt? Like what really this is 52 years later, you should be able to fight with somebody if they're being an asshole like, you know how what happened that is so bad that you're afraid of your own reaction.

That's a scary thing, because I've only grown up with a father that's been like that. And because of that, there were times where I felt like he should have stuck up for me or he should have said something. But the fear of how bad he could be is what comes to his mind first, not, let me take care of my daughter because she needs to be. And that's a deep programming because you're supposed to want to...

Robb (: 21:27

Right.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 21:55

protect your kids, right? But he said, one time I remember him telling me, I made you strong enough that you could take care of yourself because I didn't have what I needed to take care of you. And I thought that's a pretty heavy thing to say as a father, that he couldn't do it, but he could make me strong enough to do it. That's crazy, isn't it? And I'm like, damn. But...

Robb (: 22:11

Fuck.

Robb (: 22:16

Mm-hmm. Right, that is heavy as shit. Fuck yeah, that's heavy.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 22:24

Oftentimes I felt like I didn't have anybody to back me up because he couldn't So there's that too. They could it didn't boil over to me in a good way You know it made things worse because I had to protect myself I had to take care of myself and I had a dad sitting right there that wouldn't So to me that was that was kind of difficult

Robb (: 22:31

Right.

Robb (: 22:38

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 22:45

Right. Yeah. So the repercussions, the repercussions of this is, is much bigger. And it could be much bigger with your friend going forward. Um, I looked up a website, basically just on survivor guilt and Google. You gotta love Google. It brought up six tips for handling survivor.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 22:57

Right?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 23:05

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 23:14

Survivors Guild. It's on psychology today. There'll be a link in the description of the show. Um, look, I think that there's, you should always see a doctor. Let's start there before we get too deep into this. Yeah, but, you know, take this with a grain of salt because we're not medical professionals. We have to say that.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 23:31

A good doctor.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 23:38

Yeah

Robb (: 23:39

You know, just in case someone decides that what we're saying is correct. But this is the, you know, this here's some things that says six things you should do to, um, help yourself with surviving guilt. Uh, ask who is truly responsible. This I think number one hits it out of the park. Uh, I think you do have to, um, really look deep in who's responsible for it.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 24:00

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 24:08

This one kind of goes over a thing where a Syrian grad student thinks they're responsible for their country suffering. And I think this is kind of a good one where, you know, you're going through things, mostly in a country where there's a lot of death from starving or war, right? Like this says, it's the government.

and the warring factions that are truly responsible, you're a byproduct of that. And this is just a really kind of a good example of where you really don't have any way to say that, to get out of it, right? It's you're a product of the environment, so it's really not your fault. And...

Tina Marie Garcia (: 24:40

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 25:01

you know, it kind of goes over a couple of things of like surviving a natural disaster. Tornado rips through town. They're like, and I've seen way back when I lived in Ventura County, what was that? Maybe four or five years ago, remember the horrible fires we had here in California. And it, I went to a street working on an alarm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 25:24

Yeah.

Robb (: 25:30

there was one house left, one on a whole block. And I kind of stepped back for a second and was like, wow, like it must've been crazy to still live on that street with only one house. That the whole block was gone. And I'm working on this home, right? That had an alarm issue because of things that had happened.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 25:52

Yeah.

Robb (: 25:59

someone had to kick the door in during the fires and broken alarm contact. So that's what I was there for. And I kind of stepped back and in my time sitting there, I went, wow, it's gotta be kind of weird. And I asked the owner, I was like, it must be kind of odd living here now. And like, they were like, yeah, it's kind of weird that we're the only house.

And so there was a guilt to that, like why did my house? Because I did ask about like people dying around them and they're like, oh no, everyone got out. Everyone just lost their house. So there was kind of a guilt to that. And I could see it in them, like yeah, it's odd. But he did say on the flip side, they're gonna rebuild. All these houses will be here in two years. But it was odd.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 26:39

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 26:47

Yeah.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 26:51

Well, remember the 94 earthquake was the same thing. I had a lot of friends who were red tagged, not able to go into their place that they lived in for any of their things. And here we had our house still standing. There was total chaos inside, but we still had a roof over our heads, you know, and we didn't have our homes blow up like several did going down the street. And you know, it was weird because

when people say, are you still the one of the first things they had asked was, are you still where you were living before? And that was kind of a weird question that people were asking because so many people were out.

Robb (: 27:38

Yeah, I remember that. Thankfully, the same. My apartment building at the time was the only one on my block that didn't get red tagged. So it was kind of an odd thing. So as you can see, it's not just death. These are things that there is guilt in just having something that most people had beforehand. Like some place to live.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 27:47

Yeah.

Robb (: 28:05

Number two on this list says, remind yourself you can handle sadness and loss. As horrible as guilt is, it can be easier than dealing with a death statement brought on by grief. So in the case of your friend, you know, look, you have to step back and realize that regardless, there's sadness and loss.

that his grief is gonna be better or harder than the loss that happened. And I know it's kind of weird, like the thing with this too is that's going to continue to rehash this for him is if he ends up seeing the families of the people, right? If he has to go to court and all these things, it's, there is no moving on from it.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 28:48

Right.

Robb (: 28:56

So you have to at least realize that, you know, you did what you could and death happens or whatever the thing is happens.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 29:06

Yeah. And that was one of the things that he was asked was, was do you, or do you have any contact with the family? Have you spoke to any of the family? And he said, no. And, and they didn't believe him. And they asked him why. And he said, cause I can't face their, their grief because I failed them. And I was like, what? Yeah. I, I got, you know, what a good person.

Robb (: 29:29

Yeah, that's gnarly.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 29:36

Honestly that would feel that way to that degree that he was worried or concerned for the people that the These girls left behind like what a kind soul and a good heart, but at the same time I think gosh like Maybe if he maybe if he spoke to them like maybe if he spoke to one of the mothers one of the mother Mona one of the mothers could say something like Thank you for trying You know, thank you for being there

Robb (: 30:02

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 30:05

I know as a mom that's where I would be with things like, thank you for being there when I couldn't be to try to save her when I was not there. And I think that if he got some of that, maybe he wouldn't feel so much guilt or maybe he still would, I don't know. But I just think, gosh, like there's no reason for the guilt.

Robb (: 30:15

Right.

Robb (: 30:28

Yeah, and I think with hearing something like that, you would, I kind of agree with what you said earlier that, you know, at least someone who gave a shit was there in the last moments of someone's life. Because you look at like, you know, the horrible years of our COVID disaster, you know, how many people died in hospitals alone? Because of this nonsense that I would probably have guilt for that if I couldn't.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 30:40

Yeah.

Robb (: 30:58

You know, could you imagine if you were a nurse during this whole nonsensical bullshit and you had to watch people or push people away? There's probably guilt in that. Like I could have let people in, but I was told not to so I had to watch their family member die and they didn't get to. So look.

There's so many ways to do our best to kind of step back and go, okay, how do we handle this? Number three on this list is think about how people who love you feel about your survival. I think that there is something to that where, ask people, because look, we've all been in situations, and I don't want to say all near death, but things, right? That...

you know, have happened in our lives that you should step back and go, hey, I should feel pretty good about this. Your friends probably say the same thing, like we're happy you didn't get in that car accident, or we're happy this didn't happen. You shouldn't feel guilty for not being able to save someone like you also shouldn't feel guilty about, you know, making it to work tomorrow.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 32:06

Yeah.

Robb (: 32:20

life is kind of its own little, it's a daily thing, right? We're all running from death, right? It's chasing us sooner or later.

but you can't worry about the...

the thing of I couldn't do this or I couldn't do that. Because to me it's a death sentence in your own head. And it takes way more time for you to get there. Because we can only do so much. You know, since you're, you like me have an older child. I remember when my son first got his driver's license. I was like puckered up all the time when he was leaving.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 32:48

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 33:09

Just like, okay, just make it home. Just make it home. And I still feel that way. But I kinda had to step back and go, okay, I can only do so much, right? I hope my kid makes it home every single day. But he is in the hands of everything that's happening, right? Life, him, driving, other people.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 33:12

Yeah.

Robb (: 33:33

speed. There's so many things that would drive me, you know, bonkers to worry at that level. We can only do so much.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 33:43

Absolutely. And the end game is nobody gets out of this life without dying. I do believe that we are given a certain amount of time to do what we need to do and once that's done it's over. There's nothing we could do to fix any of that. It just is what it is. You just have to love and support and

you know, do everything you can to live the best way you can with the people that means something to you. And you got to let the rest go because in time, we're all going to be there. You know, it's all we're all supposed to go. How we go. If we work it right, it doesn't need to be so tragic. And it doesn't need to take other people with them. We're with us. But yeah, I kind of feel like you can't you can't have guilt for that.

Robb (: 34:42

Mm-hmm. Here's one, number four, it says, it's not a zero-sum game. It says, hidden beneath Survivor Guild is the idea that there's only so much luck to go around and is benefiting from good fortune means that someone else is being deprived of it. But luck is random. And I think that that's a good one. It says, the lottery is a perfect example of how...

Arbitrary luck is sometimes no one has the winning a lot of numbers and sometimes multiple people share it The chances of hitting it big aren't increased or decreased by someone else's picks. It's hard to accept that there are not Greater order of things but once we do we feel vindicated That's kind of a good way of looking at it. Luck is random, you know if You look at disasters, right if

Tina Marie Garcia (: 35:27

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 35:36

The person who is in the town that has a hurricane hit, he just happened to go on a trip. He just happened to book a trip to Hawaii that week. And half the town perished. That was just luck doing its thing. You just happened to be there. So.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 35:51

Right.

Robb (: 36:04

I think you have to kind of step back and realize that look, it's life is random and that the girls in that car, you know, were if they would have done something different, maybe things would have been different, but maybe not exactly. And then you can go down the line of, you know, things happen because they're supposed to.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 36:20

Maybe not. Yeah.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 36:30

Look at all the people like that have been they were scheduled to go on a trip and something happened and they didn't go on a trip and then the plane goes down and they're like that's so crazy it could have been me. Well yeah it could have been anybody. It just happened to be when it was and who was there suffered.

Robb (: 36:45

Yeah, exactly. Mm-hmm, yeah.

Let's see, here's another one for you. Number five of ways to help with your survivor's guilt. Do something meaningful for someone else. Let's see, feeling guilty drives us, makes us right. We feel it always. So basically it just says, look, maybe, you know, to help yourself just continue, continually be good.

Like there's nothing wrong with helping somebody else out to maybe help with your thing. So basically, you know, put something else on the scale to balance it out.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 37:30

Yeah, be of service to something else. Absolutely.

Robb (: 37:34

Yeah, like it gives a good example, I guess, during the Civil War, people of the Confederate Army were asked to like, to go help other people, to like, give them the guilt of, you know, obviously being in a war, killing people not too far away from your own neighborhood. So this is that they were giving blood, their own blood to people from the other side.

to try to help them out. So look, there is something to be said about that. Find maybe something else you can do to help out to balance that scale of, I couldn't help them, but I can help these people.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 38:26

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 38:26

There's something to be said about that, I guess, where you can kind of step back and go, I'm at least giving back to society, to where I couldn't help these people.

I don't know about how much that is gonna help a lot of people, but I will tell you that it probably helps some to the degree of going, I'm still giving back to society.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 38:53

Well, yeah, if you live in a place of gratitude and do acts of service for other people, you can't live with all the negative. It takes a back seat, and what you push through and what you focus on will become what your mood is gonna be like. So I think it's really important to do that.

Robb (: 39:15

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 39:17

to be of service and to help out in maybe in ways where you can win and it's not so dire you know it's all you know it could be life or death it doesn't have to be that big of a of an act.

Robb (: 39:33

Correct. Yes, small things help. Like volunteering at the local church, the food drive, or to help feed people. These are small things that you can do to definitely at least show yourself that you're helping. And that, you know. Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 39:37

Yep.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 39:55

And they do make huge differences too. They do.

Robb (: 40:00

And number six says this goes without saying, but take care of yourself. If you've survived a harrowing experience or have otherwise been left behind, taking care of yourself both physically and emotionally is essential for healing. Eat well, sleep well, move your body, find support to help make sense of it all. Yeah, I think that those are massively big things that

Tina Marie Garcia (: 40:05

Yes.

Robb (: 40:29

you have to step back and realize that you can't drown in your emotion.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 40:37

Right. It says, um, Guild has a place for our emotional rep in our emotional repertoire. It motivates us to make amends, but with Survivors Guild, it's misplaced. So grieve your losses, but remember that it wasn't your fault. Others are glad you're still here and that you can use the survival to pay it forward. And I believe in that.

Robb (: 41:00

I mean, that sounds perfect without going too deep. I think that most of the things that they were talking about in the first five are very true. Find some help, do these things. And at the end, look, you have to be able to grieve the losses, but it wasn't your fault. And.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 41:05

Yeah.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 41:24

And also be thankful that it wasn't you or your children or your whomever, you know, that you don't have to suffer that loss because it didn't happen to you. You could feel guilt that you weren't able to fix it, but it's also good to be, to sit and say, thank you that it wasn't me today. Cause it's so easily could be you at any given time.

Robb (: 41:35

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 41:50

Mm-hmm, correct. And I think that we as humans, you know, it's built into us from a very, very long time ago, right? Could you imagine being in a place, you know, where you had to survive off killing food and there wasn't enough, and they had to watch many, many people die around them? The survivor's guilt, you know, in...

Tina Marie Garcia (: 42:15

I can imagine.

Robb (: 42:20

that time period must have been crazily bad. But they didn't have the things around them to let the stress get to them, right? Because you had to get your next meal and you had to make sure you had a cave to sleep in or some kind of, you know, house. So I think that there's probably less of the.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 42:25

Yeah.

Robb (: 42:48

emotional burden over a long time period because they just they didn't have that you probably had survivor's guilt for a very hard time for a very short amount of time now you know we don't worry about those things we don't have to worry about generally where the next meal comes from or you know uh and i'm generalizing obviously and

Tina Marie Garcia (: 42:51

Yeah.

Robb (: 43:14

There's so many things that now can remind us of that very quickly. You know, we have a phone in our hand that gives us all the shitty news very quickly. And I think...

Tina Marie Garcia (: 43:26

Yep.

Robb (: 43:27

You know, we've talked about social media a million times on the show. These are the things that continue the circle of these bad things, right? You're already guilty that something happened or you survived. And then you watch the news and there's another plane crash somewhere. And, you know, three people survived out of 200. And now that is another kicker that just reopens the wound and reopens the wound.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 43:49

Yeah.

Robb (: 43:57

So, you know, going back to that last tip, you know, get out, walk the beach, try to find positivity in the things that are around you without having to get punched in the face every five minutes from your phone telling you how shitty the world is.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 44:17

Yeah. Yeah, because you know, there are shitty parts to this life that we lead, but there's also some really good ones and we need to hold on to those more so than we hurt than we hurt from the bad ones. You know, otherwise what good are we here and what good is life if we don't hold on to that?

Robb (: 44:42

Yeah, I think you're right, step back, look at the things around you, and find all that positive ones, like this is great, this is great, this is great. Even though there's bad, because there's always gonna be bad. Even at your highest level. I mean, you look at people that have taken their own lives that are actors or...

People who had immense fortunes still found a way to not find the positivity. So you need to step back for a second and go, okay, woke up this morning, you know, my relationship's shitty, okay? I'm gonna fix it. I'm gonna get out of it, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 45:12

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 45:16

Yeah.

Robb (: 45:33

Money's tight, okay? I'm gonna tighten my belt, I'm gonna not do this, I'm gonna give up doing this until I can get above water. These are survival mechanisms that I think if you have guilt from the other thing, you have to find that mechanism to get you through it. Your friend, there is no way of me patting them on the back and going, you did your best.

because only he knows if he did his best. And he knows that he had to watch someone perish, but he asks a lot to understand that he did his best to try, because you're right, there were probably tons of people standing around with a phone in their fucking hand instead of helping. And maybe we, as a society, will have less survivor's guilt if we can have more people trying to help the other people survive.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 46:28

Mm-hmm. Yeah, so see, I told him a hundred times you could look at this situation so many different ways. But what is the truth? The truth is you were there and you were trying and unfortunately it was their day to go. So you have to, you have to roll with that.

Robb (: 46:45

Mm-hmm.

Robb (: 46:50

You have to pump yourself up saying you did your best Because

Tina Marie Garcia (: 46:54

Absolutely. And I make sure to remind him every time. Did you do everything you could? He said yes, but it wasn't enough. I said, but it was all you could do. That's all anybody expects from you.

Robb (: 47:06

Yeah. And look, he'll find solace sometime. I hope it's soon. But he needs to know that he did the best he could. And that's what you need to live with. I did what I could. And hopefully we all, at some point, look at our lives and say that.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 47:13

Mm-hmm.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 47:26

Absolutely.

Robb (: 47:35

Right? We all did the best we could.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 47:39

Yep.

Robb (: 47:40

Because if we don't, we're all going to be in some kind of mess like that.

I would say from the standpoint of beforehand, check in with your people, make sure they're doing all right. But you can't fix every problem. And I think that us as human beings, we love to try to fix every problem. And we can't. There's none of that. Just be supportive. And

Tina Marie Garcia (: 48:06

Yeah.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 48:13

Be supportive, be kind, and do what you can to help. Do what you can to help. There's...

Robb (: 48:17

and if

Robb (: 48:21

and talk to people. If even, you know, I know there's a lot of online therapy now, which is kind of interesting. But I mean, there's a whirlwind of people out there that will listen. Lean on them. I think it's big, because there's no reason for you to wallow in the guilt.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 48:22

Yeah.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 48:42

Yeah.

Robb (: 48:48

of something that truly you probably couldn't have fixed.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 48:53

Yeah, it was out of your hands.

Robb (: 48:55

Yeah. Anything else to say this week there, Miss Tina?

Tina Marie Garcia (: 49:01

You know, life is, is ever evolving. Be kind to yourself. Like there's just so much, even in my world that we don't talk about, there's, there's so much going on. I I'm always reminded that today is just one day in a huge journey that we have here on this earth. So just be kind, take it easy on yourself.

Robb (: 49:25

Yeah, look in the mirror and realize that you did your best today, and tomorrow's another one.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 49:32

Yep, that's all you can do.

Robb (: 49:34

All right, make sure you check us out on our social media. It's Twitter and Facebook, Instagram. You can check us out on YouTube, YouTube Music, Apple, Spotify, all the places that you can listen to podcasts and we're there. And this is an opinion show, so don't get it twisted. Keep coming back every Wednesday to check us out. Until then, I'm Rob, that's Tina. We'll see you next Wednesday. See ya.

Tina Marie Garcia (: 49:58

See ya.