EP # 158 The Challenges and Value of Brutally Honest Friends

Robb (: 00:00

And welcome to another show of Don't Get This Twisted. am Rob, along with my co -host as always, Tina. How you doing, Tina?

Tina (: 00:06

I'm good, Rob, trying to stay cool, but I'm doing alright. How are you?

Robb (: 00:10

same trying to get

Tina (: 00:12

Yeah. I hear that. It's been a hot one and I'm tired of it.

Robb (: 00:16

Yeah. Yeah. I'm a little over it. A little over

Tina (: 00:23

Yeah, I'm going to be going to Hawaii in a couple weeks. So I'm excited for that because I'm hoping that the weather will be a little bit better than it is here, but God only knows. We'll see.

Robb (: 00:37

Yeah, it should be a tad more humid there, I'm sure. But, but I mean, if the weather's cooler, it's gonna be better for

Tina (: 00:42

joy.

Tina (: 00:47

Absolutely. And they say this week it's calmed down a little bit, so I'm hoping that it's bearable. It would be nice if it's bearable.

Robb (: 00:56

Yeah, we're gonna get a couple of days off. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday it looks like.

Tina (: 01:01

Right on.

Robb (: 01:03

Yeah, like we're gonna get I think it's supposed to be tomorrow supposed to be in the 80s, which is nice. So at least one day. Yeah.

Tina (: 01:08

Really? I know we were in the pool late last night and it was significantly cooler than it's been. It was like warm bath water and now it was a little chilly. I couldn't stay in for hours like we've been. I got out after like an hour.

Robb (: 01:24

All right. I think a lot of it has to do too is with like when you get out and there's a tiny breeze and you kind of get, you know, chilly. Mm hmm. Mm hmm. So that's good. So we're hitting our list that I mean, many of our lists that we have. But this one I thought was kind of a interesting one. And I think that we all kind of do need in life.

Tina (: 01:33

Yeah, we've had the tiny breeze.

Robb (: 01:54

They put the need for that one brutally honest friend.

Robb (: 02:02

Only because I think that a lot of friends are yes people. They'll just tell you what you want to hear because it's easier and nobody wants to hurt anybody's feelings.

Tina (: 02:10

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 02:21

Right?

Robb (: 02:21

So I think when it comes to that, that's kind of the biggest problem, None of us have that one person that'll give us the truth.

Tina (: 02:36

I don't know. I try to find ways to tell people the truth, but I try to not be brutal in my honesty because I don't think that that, I don't believe that that communication gets across as well as when you are a little bit more concerned about the well -being or the feelings of a person because they have to be able to accept what you're saying. And if they're defending themselves, they're not going to really hear you.

Robb (: 02:39

I mean...

Tina (: 03:05

So I try to not do that as much as, but I can, I totally can. And I have friends that'll call me and say, I want your honest opinion. I'm like, are you sure? And then I just tell them. But I don't know about the brutally honest.

Robb (: 03:18

Yeah, I think a lot of it has to do with when you're... Some people I think you have to be brutally honest with because they just won't listen. I think it ends up being

Tina (: 03:33

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 03:41

If they continue to just keep doing the same thing over and over over and over over over again, a lot of people will give them the, give them it's not you, it's the other people excuse until someone that has to just come to you and go, look, like this is not good.

Tina (: 04:06

Right.

Robb (: 04:07

You're ruining your life because of this or because of this so You know, I think And I think we all need that one person because I think a lot of like I said even Friends that you might have had for a long time and I mean 20 plus years will always pacify you Because they they think if they go over that line too much that you might

Tina (: 04:30

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 04:37

ruin a friendship.

Tina (: 04:39

I have a core group of friends that I'm with on a very normal basis. And in our group, everybody's really honest. And I'm glad for that. We worked really hard to be able to take each other's honesty, but also to give it. Because it's just as hard to give an honest opinion as it is to get it. we

I always say there's no judgment. If you want to tell the truth or you want to say what you need to say, remember, we don't need to judge a person because no one is supposed to be right in this world. We're supposed to be learning lessons. Lessons don't come easy and they don't, they're normally a big bitch slap when you get them. So we don't need to be that type of friend to each other, but we should be honest. And I find

Robb (: 05:19

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 05:34

that I get a lot of opinions that I didn't ask for, for one, because we are always being honest. And when I know I'm doing something stupid, I will tell them, I already know this about myself. I already know what I'm doing. But here's the deal. I still kind of want to. So you have to understand that I'm going to still do this. You could be honest with me. We could talk about this. But know that I'm still going to go down this road. as my friend,

You're just supposed to listen to the stories. And we really are like that. Okay, well, tell us a story. You know, what's going on. And I find that we all know each other very well because we are able to completely be honest, but we are also able to completely talk about things too without there being an issue.

That's taken me a long time to get friends like that, because if you tell something to someone and it's really honest, they don't want to hear it. They're going to be like, you're a jerk. I don't want to be your friend anymore. You don't know what you're talking about. And it becomes an issue. My friends, they may say, you don't know what you're talking about. don't, whatever, whatever. But they'll still be my friend, because we've got this. rule is that, you

we're still there for each other, that you can't just walk away. We don't need to be mean. We don't need to be judgy. And we're gonna be friends. I'm really grateful now that I'm in my 50s that I could say that we do that. Because I couldn't say that in

Well, in my 40s I lost a lot of friends. That's when it started getting honest. In my 30s I couldn't tell any of my friends the truth and if I did, it was with really tiny baby gloves because they were little bitches that couldn't handle it.

Robb (: 07:22

Mm -hmm.

I just think that it could be because it's difficult, right? look, none of us, even though we probably know the truth, I think that nobody wants it spat out in front of them. That's why the, look, I don't want 20 brutal friends. Right, you have to have the ones that do pacify you. Because I think that there's, look,

Tina (: 07:43

Mm -hmm. Couldn't take that kind of abuse.

Robb (: 07:55

both sides of that friendships, both sides of those. If you have the brutally honest one and the passive one that will give you enough to make you feel better, you have to have both of those, right? Because it is a kind of a yin and yang, it's a balance. Usually the one who's very passive though, tells you afterwards. Like, always knew that that guy was an idiot. you know, and you're like,

Tina (: 08:09

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 08:21

Yeah, yes.

Robb (: 08:24

Well, why don't you just fucking tell me? Cause like two and a half years later, now I'm screwed. I think that the one who tells you in the beginning now, whether you listen to him or not is irrelevant. Because I think the brutal friend goes that, know, I don't like that chick that you're, you know, your best friend's a fucking whore bag and you shouldn't be around her. And if, and if you're telling your girlfriend that, or you're telling your friend that, you know, look, it's probably for a reason.

Tina (: 08:45

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 08:53

But brutal honesty can get you in a lot of trouble, you

Tina (: 08:55

Well, yeah, you will definitely be the one that doesn't get invited places if they are together. There's that. My friends and I, we all talk about that too. Well, that's the one I'm not going to invite to the concert with us on Saturday. We say that right out loud to each other because we do it in a joking manner because we get away with more that way.

Robb (: 08:59

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 09:19

The core group of friends when they do that, I like to sit and listen to them because we've all evolved in a way that we could be honest and I do like that. I do appreciate that in them. But at the same time too, I'm like, I don't want to hear it today and I'll tell them that too. I know that I'm not doing smart things, but can we just forget that part for the story of it and let me continue? We also have talks like that too.

It's working out, but brutally honest is when, listen, your life is in danger, you're really fucking up. That's when I save the brutally honest.

I don't go around using that very often. I'd rather find a different way and be a little softer and a little more kind because again, we're all going through lessons. It's not easy on anybody. So I try to sugarcoat it a little bit just for the sake of my point getting across better, but also so that they know that they're still being supported.

Robb (: 10:24

Correct. And like I said, I think that there's, there is a key to that, right? That you can support somebody and not like kick their legs out from under them. Brutal friends will kick you in the leg, but not let you fall down. You know what I mean? It's like, yeah, there is. Even the most brutally honest person, I think, does it with some kind of kid gloves.

Tina (: 10:35

Yep.

Tina (: 10:44

Yeah, there's still an art to that.

Robb (: 10:54

They just happen to be boxing gloves and they will, they'll beat you up over some stuff. And look, I like that sometimes. Sometimes, and like I said, you're only gonna take the advice that you're going to take it regardless. So sometimes the brutal friend is covering their bases. They're going, I fucking told you. And that, know, I'm out. Yeah, they care. They're just giving you

Tina (: 10:58

Yeah. yeah.

Tina (: 11:08

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 11:14

Yeah. Because they care, truly. They do care if they're saying it.

Robb (: 11:21

Look, I'm out of this. I don't want or I want to make sure that I'm telling you upfront way before this shit happens. So I mean, I get it.

Tina (: 11:32

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 11:37

I tend to tell the ones that are brutally honest though, only the stories that I know that they're not going to have something shitty to say. I really do, because I'm like, really, I'm smart enough. I know what I'm doing wrong. And I still want to do it. Like, I will tell them. I still want to do it. And yeah, this may hurt, but I don't learn my lessons easily. I kind of need them to hurt. And walk with me. You want to hear a good story? Put your feet back, grab some popcorn, and I'll tell you one.

Like, let's do this, but I don't feel that inclination to do that with people that are brutally honest. And I've, you know, I'll get told, you just want everybody to like you. No, not really. I just don't want to hurt anybody. There's a difference. You know, I want the people that are supposed to like me to like me. I just don't need to go, you know, savage on somebody that's going through something.

Robb (: 12:08

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 12:25

Right? No.

Robb (: 12:37

I think that the brutal honest friend doesn't say it right away, generally.

Tina (: 12:43

no, they let it build up until they can't stand it anymore for sure.

Robb (: 12:46

Correct. What it is is it's this, you know, it's the snowball rolling downhill. But once it gets to a certain size, they bowl you over with it. Because I just think that most brutally honest friends, you know, they'll go, they're giving you enough rope to hang yourself. But before you get there, then they hurt you.

You know, and like you said, I think I agree with you. I think it is in the best interest of the person that they're telling. They don't they don't mean it as as being hurtful or anything. They're just like, look, you're to a certain place and I have to tell you this before you get hurt or before this happens or that happens. You know, it's kind of like the one friend who who

Tina (: 13:27

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 13:35

before marriage, you know, like before it gets to the day or it's like, look, you know, are you really, really, really, really, really, really, really sure of this? Because I see this, this, this, this, and this.

Tina (: 13:49

Yeah. See, with all of my friends as they've gotten married and cousins and people that I've been close to, I go up to them right before and say, okay, I got the car running. Are you sure this is what you want to do before I turn it off? No judgment. Are you having cold feet? Do you need to get the hell out of here or are you good? Nobody's ever said, I'm getting cold feet, get me out of here. I'm wondering who that's going to be because at some point somebody is going to say something.

Robb (: 14:03

Right?

Tina (: 14:19

If you ask my friends, every last one of them, right before they were to walk down the aisle, I was like, all right, are you sure? It's no judgment on anything other than, are you sure? Like, is this really what you want to do? Because sometimes you get caught up in the ideal of it. And then when it comes down to the reality, you're like, wait, this isn't going to work. But.

Though they still all go down that aisle. I haven't persuaded anybody and I tell everybody's husbands too. I'm like, listen, as a friend, I had to give them the out. Just like if I was your friend, I would have given you the out. It's just being a friend and a good one.

Robb (: 15:01

Exactly. It's being the one that you can always count on. Like, I'd rather have the one, like, if I need to know something, I can lean on somebody and go, hey, this is what's going on, what do you think? they're gonna, again, they're gonna hurt me with kid gloves on. And I think that a lot of people don't have that brutally honest friend.

Tina (: 15:07

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 15:29

Yeah.

Robb (: 15:30

I think too many people in our lives have the passive friends that just want to make sure everything's fine. and, you know, we can give the relationship a example, like where, you know, your, your best friend is going out with this girl, right? And you're just

man, she's just not the best person. you really kind of, and look, he seems happy and he's not telling you that there's any problems, right? But you can see it and you're like, this is gonna be a problem. you can see, but most people go, okay, well, we'll just keep riding it out. And to me, it's like, you're gonna end up, your friends is gonna end up getting hurt in the end.

And I think that that's the bigger problem these days, is that there isn't that person in your life. Generally, for me, you either have parents. Parents can be brutally honest or they can be the most passive people on the planet. And...

Tina (: 16:34

Mm -hmm. My dad is the exact thing that you just described, but not much in the middle for me. It's an all or nothing approach.

Robb (: 16:41

Right. Mm hmm. Yeah. And and look, that's that's generally how it is. It's it's either like I said, and parents are like brutally honest. They'll tell you that, you know, they'll actually say shit about people from the past. Like, she's not this person. It's like,

Tina (: 16:52

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 17:02

I had a boyfriend in my teens and first couple years of my 20s. And my mom couldn't stand him. My mom died when I was 40. And right before she died within weeks, she was still talking shit about the one that pissed her off. Like she couldn't get that out of her head. And I was like, mom, I'm married. I'm on a totally different.

road, can we quit talking about what I did as a stupid teenager? Can we please? She couldn't stop it. That stayed with her until she died.

Robb (: 17:42

No, but that just goes to show you that like that that that had an effect

Tina (: 17:47

she was traumatized. But that's where you learn your lessons is on the first few people you date. Like you're supposed, it's not supposed to go right.

Robb (: 17:49

Yeah.

Robb (: 17:54

for sure.

No, but obviously there was probably some kind of, you know, there was something that clicked.

Tina (: 18:03

she had an itch that she just, she could not not deal, she had to say something.

Robb (: 18:09

Right. And it stuck with her forever. Yeah. No, but I mean, I've kind of heard the same thing where like, I was with somebody and they would say something or like you'd break up with somebody and they'd go, you know, if she was just like this girl, know that, who was that one girl you dated in the past?

Tina (: 18:13

He did traumatize her.

Tina (: 18:37

Mmm. Rip your heart out.

Robb (: 18:37

It's like, man, like, she was always so sweet. Whatever happened to her? yeah. It's like, I get it. And again, that's also being brutally honest. That they're holding on to someone that they thought was better for you, even though it didn't work out or for whatever reason. Those are kind of, you know.

Tina (: 18:43

Yeah.

Tina (: 18:51

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 18:59

Yeah.

Robb (: 19:02

I also think that that's probably something inherently built into the person who's telling you that though. Because they're holding onto something. I went through a bunch of my mom's stuff the other day and I found a diary that, yeah, it's, yeah, brutal, brutal. And I mean, I'm in it.

Tina (: 19:07

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 19:17

You said something about that, but we didn't talk off air about

Tina (: 19:24

So you were in

Robb (: 19:30

for a little bit, it's no, it's not brutal about that. It's just brutal about her life. Like she wrote about her life in it. And it's really wild because it's like to me and my brother, like it's, she wanted us to read it. So, and it's just about like who she was as a person. It was really, it was hard to read. And then the crazy thing was, is it really only went until 1990 and she stopped writing in it. Yeah, it's really bizarre. But,

But those are the things that I think, I think they're, the people who are brutally honest are probably the ones who got hurt the most at some point. And then now they're covering everybody. They're trying to be the, and I don't wanna say the savior, because I don't think that that's what, but it's, they're just, yeah, because I think that they've seen,

Tina (: 20:06

No, yeah.

Tina (: 20:19

They're definitely a caution sign.

Robb (: 20:24

It's like somebody who's seen narcissistic behavior and then they're coming to you going, hey, I'm seeing a lot of this in this person that you're with. But that's a hard thing to say to somebody because if they're not seeing it and they're happy, that would be the best way of looking at it.

No one's going to listen until it's over. And then they have to come back. And then you, as the person who they told, have to come back and go, yeah, I know you told me. I know you told me. I know you told me. So like, it's a hard thing. And it's hard. I'm sure it's hard to be that brutally honest friend. Because I'm kind of the in -between. I'm the middle person. I pick and choose when to be very brutal.

Tina (: 20:50

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 21:18

But when I am, I'm like ugly brutal. It's like a faucet, right? They just open up the faucet and it all pours out. I vomit out information that I probably shouldn't. But generally, I kind of stay in the middle. I try not to hurt people's feelings, because I want them to, I give them enough to go, hey, this is kind of what I think. Maybe that's the best way of putting it. I just go, yeah, kind of, yeah.

Tina (: 21:31

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 21:47

You know, even saying something harsh, not brutal, just, eh, can come off as the most brutal thing in the world because the people who are hearing it don't want to hear it. And that's, I think, the bigger thing, right? When we hear something that's probably we know, but no one else has told us yet.

Tina (: 22:03

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 22:16

And you're like,

Tina (: 22:19

I just got a big shit sandwich handed to me.

Robb (: 22:22

Yeah, yeah, and force fed to you, you know, they're like, here, have another bite because it's so good. So I believe that that brutal honesty is it's a it's an art form, right? That you have to kind of walk on glass sometimes or a Lego filled hallway, you know, you have to kind

Tina (: 22:26

right?

Hehehe.

Robb (: 22:52

You need somebody in your life to just go, you're fucking up. Because I think a lot of people would be helped by that. You know, you look at addiction for one, like.

Most people who are addicted know they are, but they need somebody to go, we're taking you out in the middle of the forest in a house for a month and you're not seeing anyone. You know what I mean? Like some people need that kind of detoxification. Yeah. I had heard from a friend of mine that there's someone in her circle.

Tina (: 23:18

Mm -hmm. Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 23:27

help. think at that point it's just help. They can't do it on their own.

Robb (: 23:37

that has an alcohol problem. And it's bad. Like, showing up to work and probably still hungover, so if they tested their blood, they'd fail. If... Your blood alcohol level, sure. It's the same thing as a DUI. Yeah, so... Yeah, so... And like, they

Tina (: 23:49

Is there a test for that?

Tina (: 23:57

Okay, duh. Okay, I'm with you now.

Robb (: 24:07

a bunch of them were partying together and they had to hide booze. They had to actually literally hide it. She was swigging out of a whiskey bottle, straight. Yeah.

Tina (: 24:18

Ooh, that's going nowhere fast.

Robb (: 24:22

Yeah, she, I mean, she got a phone call the other day. She's supposed to be, you know, detoxifying and trying to get better. And she called her drunk. So which reminds me of my my old friend who who passed he overdosed. He would he'd call me in the middle of the night. Hi, all the time. And, you know, and I kind of got brutally honest with him. It was more over wrestling work. We were trying to go get work because we were working as a team at the time.

Tina (: 24:40

Mm

Robb (: 24:51

And when I showed up, he was high. I'm like, you can't go talk to people high. Like it's not helping. So the brutally honest person sometimes has to go, okay, you're on your own. And it sucks because I did that and really never talked to him ever again because he died. So, but the parts of that is that you can sometimes

Tina (: 25:04

Yeah.

Robb (: 25:17

that kind of thing, you have to go, okay, look, dude, you need rehab and you need to go and you need to get your shit together and you need to do this. Because if you don't have that one person, they'll just continue to go, okay, it's not my problem, it's not my problem, it's not my problem. And

Tina (: 25:32

I also think that as the person on the other side, there needs to be boundaries. You need to say, I don't want to watch you swig whiskey right out of the bottle. I don't want to watch you go down that rabbit hole. And I've had to tell several people that just because I had to watch it over the years with family members and get involved in things that really have.

have changed the course of how I do things. I don't drink because of certain parties that I've gone to for family and how bad it's been. I was like, wow, my brother's the same way. He's like, we don't need to go down that road. Don't even touch it. Gratefully, we learned the lessons without having to go through them because we saw other people going through them.

Having to get involved with that is not easy. And having to speak up and tell somebody that their way out of line isn't easy. Even having boundaries with somebody like that, that's not easy. It's not easy to communicate.

Robb (: 26:36

And that's also being the brutal honest one of going, can't have you in my life. And sometimes that's the brutal honesty. Sometimes you have to go to that.

Tina (: 26:40

Yeah.

Tina (: 26:43

I have a cousin that during COVID, no, actually before COVID, went really, really out of bounds.

was saying that there was SWAT team on the roof of his house and he beat up some guy in the street and now they were coming for him and come and get me, come and get me and I would show up over there. Nothing's going on. It was all his delusions that he was going through because of how intoxicated for how long he was and how sick he was in the process. And I finally had to cut off ties with that.

with that person and I miss him terribly. know, it's family. You go through things but you still stay family and we have not been able to get that back because he's pissed off that I had to call bullshit on him. But if I didn't do it, he was going to take me down too. And he already knew I did it with my mom. He already watched that. So I think he understands now that he's sober but he still won't contact me. He still won't have a conversation with me.

But I'm glad he's alive.

Robb (: 27:52

Yeah, yeah, exactly. I think that those are the bigger things like, you know, maybe doing what you did might help him. You know, some again, sometimes cutting people off is is being the brutal, honest part, right? It's kind of like the sometimes there's the one friend in a group or the one or your friend that no one likes that you have to kind of sit back and you start wondering, like, I don't get it. I don't get it. And then you start then they say something one day and you go.

Tina (: 28:15

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 28:22

I get it now. Now I get it. like, then the brutal honest part is that you might not say anything to them, but you start distancing yourself from them because you have to just for the sake of everyone involved. And it sucks. But that's that's kind of like being brutally honest before you have to be brutally honest. Because I think that with that kind of friend in your life or that kind of person.

Tina (: 28:32

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 28:45

Thank you.

Robb (: 28:50

You start distancing, you start distancing, you start distancing, and then they may say something about the distance, and then you have to be brutally honest and go, look, I can't be around you anymore. You're too much and blah, blah. And I get it. And it sucks when you're the person that has to be the out.

Tina (: 29:10

I do agree with that, but at the same time, if you don't get out of an addict's way and let them hit their low, you keep them in a sick state. And they do need to hit rock bottom. They do need to go, whatever their bottom is, they need to do that. And they need to look around and see that they are alone, because that's the only thing that seems to stop this. We were.

I've often said my dad and I and my brother were very good enablers to my mom. And when we finally decided to stop, that's when things started to change. Unfortunately, we waited way too long. We should have done it eight, 10 years earlier. And maybe then it would have been a different outcome. But then again, maybe it wouldn't, because my mom was who she was and she was going to do what she wanted to do. And there was no changing her

But at the same time, I think that in my life, if I ever have to be around somebody again, I'm going to say something and get out of their way way before it gets that bad.

And that's what I did with my cousin. I told him and I had to get out of his way. He was really abusive. Like every time I talked to him, you're a fucking bitch. You're a fucking asshole. And I'm like, dude, I just got here with groceries. What is your problem? Tell me what you're pissed off at. And he didn't even have, he didn't even have any legitimate.

Answers for me. Yeah, that's what he was thinking about himself and so I was like let me get out of your way because you're on a crash course and I love you, and I'll be here for you whenever you want to get your shit together

Tina (: 30:52

Well, he still hasn't gotten it together enough to want to come and talk to me, which is fine. I know that what I did was going to piss him off. I knew it. But not saying something and letting him go further would have been worse because now he's sober. So I got out of his way and he got sober. So I don't know what the answers are exactly.

Robb (: 31:14

The thing with brutal honesty is that most of us need to hear it, but don't want to. You know, it's... And I think that's with most things in life where you need to be told something. You know, it's either letting go of something, having an issue, you know, whatever the brutal honesty part is. None of us want to hear it

Tina (: 31:20

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 31:41

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 31:41

in your own head, you see things in a better light because it's always easier to see that because you're convincing yourself that things are okay or things are good or this person is good for you or that person is whatever. once the person, the brutally honest friend to me also has to be the reliable friend or the one that you can turn to when it's, yeah, that's because

Tina (: 32:07

the one that shows

Robb (: 32:11

The ones that are generally passive, you know, you can't ask them anything because they're usually yes people or no people. If you're saying, I don't think I should do this, they're going to go, yeah, you shouldn't do that. And they're saying, you're like, look, this is great. think this, they're going to go, yeah, he's great. You should keep dating him. Even

Even though they know like, he's probably a piece of shit or I've seen him do all these things and he's horrible. But they're just like, okay. And then the problem with the one brutal friend though, is that when you come to them, even though you know you're in a shitty place, you're mad at them for telling you. You're like, well, why are you telling me this? No, you're damned if you do and damned if you don't, unfortunately being the brutal friend. And look,

Tina (: 32:56

Mm -hmm. Yeah, they don't ever win out of being that person.

Robb (: 33:09

I've heard things from people over the years that, and like, I know it, but it does hurt to hear it from somebody else. Like, you're you're wasting your time doing this. Or, why are you still at that job that it's not going anywhere? Or, what are you doing this? It's like, yeah. look, and then of course then once you change that, right? You go do something different or go to a new person or get in a new relationship, then you're

yeah, like these people were, you know, Bob was trying to tell me this fucking two years ago. And I remember he did tell me two years ago and I didn't listen to him. So I think we all need

Tina (: 33:51

But that's the good thing too though, is when you have a brutally honest friend, it doesn't mean you have to take their advice. It just means you know that they see you and they see what's going on. It doesn't mean you have to listen to them though. It means you should. I mean, if they're really giving it to you, you probably should listen, but you don't have to either.

Robb (: 34:14

I think the brutally honest friend is always the one that you can go to though. You know, when everyone's saying one thing and you go to that person that generally will tell you the truth on anything, you know, because like I heard somebody on a podcast the other day saying that there's people like there's friends that are so passive that they'll you could tell them that the sky is green and they'd tell you that it

Tina (: 34:17

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 34:41

Yeah, they're your cheerleaders though. Those are the ones that are happy you're happy. Absolutely.

Robb (: 34:46

And we need those. We all need cheerleaders, but I think we also need the person who's going to go, hey, that's blue. Like, no, you're wrong. you know, but most people will go, you know, why are you saying this to me? It's like, well, because I care about you. And and you need to hear that you're you're on a roller coaster ride right now and you need to get off of it and and that

Tina (: 35:12

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 35:14

Now, but the brutally honest friend will also tell you, you know that there's, there's a light at the end of the tunnel. If you get off this fucking roller coaster, right? But you've got to get off it yourself. I can only tell you so much. And if you want to stay on it, cool. But remember that I told you this because maybe when you get off of it, I won't be here. You know, and that's also the brutally honest friend is to tell you that like, look at my friendship is here with you, but you know,

Tina (: 35:23

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 35:35

Yeah.

Robb (: 35:44

I can only stay in your friends so long while you're doing this shit. And I won't be here the next time. like, you know, mostly with an addict, you're like, I won't be here again. Like, I'm sorry, like I want you to get better and I want you to do this, but I can't, you know, I can't be part of your circus.

Tina (: 35:49

Yeah.

Tina (: 36:04

I can't sit and watch. It's such a... When I was watching the family members go through it, it was such a hard thing to watch.

Because again, if want would have fixed them, I could have fixed all of them. I wanted them healthy so badly, so badly. But that wasn't ever going to fix them. And it didn't fix them. As a matter of fact, being in the way of somebody on a collision course just gets you, you're on the same path. You're with them. You're going to go down just as hard as they do. And that.

That for me was the hardest part, is the letting go, like saying, I love you, just not enough for you to take me with you. I love you, but I don't want to watch this anymore. I love you, but it's killing me to see you suffer. And truly, I did say all those things to my mom over the years.

That was so not easy to say especially to a parent, you know and and and I've been told like you You don't just you don't tell the truth I just want you to be honest and I'm like I gotta figure out what I'm feeling before I can be honest because everything that I go through starts with feelings like I feel it in my body and then I'm able to express it but until I feel it I I can't say anything in it and I am gonna seem like I'm not being sincere, but I want to make sure that what I

and how I say it is effective, but not only effective, but it's exactly what it is that I'm feeling. I don't know. With watching my family, and with watching my mom, it was a horrendous thing to see. You know, how many people could say they had to beat up their aunt and their uncle?

Tina (: 37:58

with their dad and their brother because the aunt and uncle were high and going after their grandmother. There's not a lot of people that could say that, but I did it. I was there. I saw the whole thing, or at least when my back wasn't turned to certain things. But who needed that? I didn't need that at my age. I was like 18, 19 years old.

That wasn't fun to watch. That wasn't fun to go through. It didn't make me happy to beat up on my aunt and my uncle. But it didn't make me happy that they were going after my grandmother either.

Robb (: 38:33

Yeah, I'm sure.

Robb (: 38:39

I think that when you end up, and being the brutally honest friend can be the hardest thing in the world. Because once you're known for that, other things come with that. You end up being like the, well, you're this person, or you're this person, and.

Tina (: 38:50

for sure.

Robb (: 39:06

And it sucks because then no one asks you questions or no one asks for your support because they know that you're the mean one or you're the person who's gonna shit on their dreams or you're the person who's gonna say this about it. And yeah, and look, I think those type of people can be dream killers. I get that.

Tina (: 39:14

You're the mean one.

Tina (: 39:23

You're too judgy.

Tina (: 39:32

Mm -hmm

Robb (: 39:36

And again, I think you have to have that middle ground of the people that you're with, right? The people who are going to pump you up regardless. And then the people who are going to not tear you down, but definitely tell you like, look, this is this is a big it's a hefty goal, but, you know, good luck. To me, the most brutal friends are just the ones that are that are truthful, probably mean more than the.

Tina (: 39:54

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 40:05

Fair weather friends are the ones who are, and that's the worst ones too. The brutally honest friends will call out your fair weather friends. Like they're only here when everything's good for you, but when you're down on your luck, no one's ever fucking here. Generally the brutally honest friends are there for you every single time. They're the ones that are there to help you move and then they'll tell you that you were stupid for getting in the shit that you were in because you happened to move.

Tina (: 40:20

Yeah.

Tina (: 40:26

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 40:34

Heheheheh... -huh.

Robb (: 40:34

You know what I mean? Like, yeah, we wouldn't be doing this shit if you wouldn't have moved in here in the first place. Like I told you five years ago. It's like, yeah. I mean, yes. And, but, but those people generally I think are caring friends because they do give a shit. That's why they're telling you, you know, so honestly that

Tina (: 40:50

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 40:54

you need to get out of this or you need to get rid of them or you need to, you know, move on from the shitty job you're in. And you've had five people ask you if you want to work other places, but you don't want to. Like they're the ones who are always going to call you out on your bullshit. And sometimes I think they're the most important people in the world to call you out on your bullshit because I was down visiting my best friend, San Diego, couple of weeks ago.

Tina (: 41:05

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 41:10

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 41:24

And we were talking about somebody and he said something like, you know, I go, yeah, you know, things are just the way they are. And he goes, no, they're not, dude. That's not what you want. That's not true. Why are you talking about it like that? And I was like.

Well, because I kind of have to. And he's like, nah, that's not what it is. And he's not even brutally honest with me. But when it comes to something that he doesn't call me out, he calls me out on my bullshit. And I think that's the friend right before the brutally honest one. The one who calls you out on your bullshit is like the level down from the brutally honest one.

Tina (: 42:05

Right. I think I'm the level down from the brutally honest one.

Robb (: 42:11

Yeah, I'm the middle ground. I can be brutally honest, but I only do it when I think that it has to, has to, has to be done. But I am the level down from that almost always. I'm always the one that'll call you out on your bullshit.

Tina (: 42:25

Yeah. And in this society, you can't be really honest either because everybody gets offended. I'm so sick of that word. I, every time somebody says it, I look at them and think, you little bitch, like get offended about something real. Like this is not what you should be offended by. But I, I find that you just can't be honest because people do get offended.

Tina (: 42:53

I don't dig that. I'm not digging that at all.

Robb (: 42:54

Yeah, yeah, I kind of agree. kind of have to go, ha.

Tina (: 43:00

Let me try to sugarcoat your bullshit for you and then explain why I'm telling you this.

Robb (: 43:06

Yeah.

Tina (: 43:08

And I've actually, I have a couple of friends that we do talk like that. And I've said that to her, she just cracks up. She's like, all right, asshole, you got me. But we still have conversations, but they're just, I don't know, sometimes I think they sound pretty dysfunctional. But we get the point across, and we get the job done, and then we're back to being who we need to be. So I guess it's not that bad.

Robb (: 43:36

Yes, I agree. Look, for me, like I said, I think, you know, at the end of this show, we have to look at the bigger picture of the brutally honest friend in our life is probably the one that you should always go to. Because you're nine and a half. Well, nine and a half times if you want to hear the total truth, even though you know it's going to obliterate your life, they're probably the better one to go to.

Tina (: 43:49

Or is it?

Tina (: 44:05

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 44:05

I mean, I would rather have at least the step down in all my friends, you know, and my relationships. If I'm in a relationship with somebody, I don't want someone to hold that shit back and be passive. I want someone to go look, like, you said you were gonna do this and you didn't, why? And, you know, talk things out. Communication is everything, and I think that even with your brutally honest friend, communication is everything.

Tina (: 44:14

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 44:30

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 44:35

Because if you're brutally honest with them and they're brutally honest with you, your friendship is probably amazing. And if you're still friends, it's probably because it's for a good reason, because you trust them.

Tina (: 44:40

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 44:48

and need somebody to call you on your bullshit from time to

Robb (: 44:51

Yeah, we've been friends a long time and you've called me out on my bullshit more than once. I mean, not in the last, I mean, yes, a little bit in the last, since we started the pod, but early, you called me out on my bullshit all the time when we were like right out of high school. No, it's okay, no, no, it was like, no, but it was like silly calling me out on my bullshit.

Tina (: 44:57

Have I?

Tina (: 45:13

I'm so sorry.

Robb (: 45:20

about like, know, maybe I don't like this girl that much. And you're like, who are you lying to? She's coming on a motorcycle to your house right now. Like, you know what I mean? Like those are the things that sometimes we need. And if you have that kind of friend going forward, you're never going to be afraid to hear the truth.

Tina (: 45:31

Hehehehehe

Tina (: 45:43

Mm -hmm. I remember, I don't really remember any time I said something to you that was anything. So I don't remember and I apologize because I'm sure I said a lot over the years. But I remember when we were doing the podcast and I had to say, can we just keep it me and you instead of having like other people in the mix because I didn't want it to not be fun anymore.

And me and you have fun and we don't, we're on the same level of how we deal with things and what we do and whatnot. And I didn't want that to change. And I'm grateful that I didn't have to say anything more than like, can we just keep it me and you? And I was being brutally honest at that point. I was just trying to not be like, dude, I can't do this, you know?

Robb (: 46:11

Correct.

Robb (: 46:30

All right. Yeah, no, I get it.

Tina (: 46:41

But you know what's good about my friends? They catch on very quickly. And you're one of them. So when I do say something, you're like, I gotcha. And that's all that needs to be said. It doesn't need to go to a brutal place. Thank God. Because I don't like being the bitch. I like being a lot of things, but the bitch is not my favorite.

Robb (: 46:50

Yeah. Right.

Robb (: 47:00

Yeah, look, I do my best to not be a mega dick. I don't, I also don't like to do that. Like I, you know, I hate to say that I'm known to like for being the good guy, like the nice guy because I am, but yeah, it's my title. But like, I'm, I don't want to be a dick, but I have, look, we all have that in us. Everyone has a point. And when you pass that point of no return,

Tina (: 47:04

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 47:14

It's your title.

Tina (: 47:24

Mm -hmm.

Tina (: 47:28

You're gonna hear it. Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 47:29

It's bad. But yeah, I also try to read between the lines. I do my best to look, I try to, well, I listen. If you listen to people, generally, you'll hear it. And passive aggressive things are also a way to, even though people don't like.

Tina (: 47:43

Easy.

Robb (: 47:53

when you say passive aggressive things, sometimes if you use that, can go, they go, I think this is what they were trying to tell me. So I don't know. What's your last words on brutally honest friends in our life?

Tina (: 48:13

find a way to get your point across. It doesn't always have to be brutal, but it should always be the

Robb (: 48:22

I totally agree. Just be honest with people and do your best not to hurt people's feelings unless they really have to be hurt. If it's something that you feel like death is involved or them doing something out of control, then I'm all up for being a mega dick. But besides that,

Tina (: 48:38

Mm -hmm.

Robb (: 48:49

Be me and Tina's level. Just go a click down and just be upfront.

Tina (: 48:57

Here you go. And honest, brutally honest if you have to

Robb (: 49:01

Correct. But besides that, you know, we are on the social medias, Facebook, Instagram, X. I put the show out again last week. Whoever's in China listening to us, and it's not just one person, because it's kind of all over China, thank you. Yeah, there's like two or three people in China, I think, listening. Either that, or they're on a virtual network, and they're in the United States, and they're just listening in China.

Tina (: 49:16

No way!

Robb (: 49:29

If not, if you are listening, thank you very much. Keep sharing the show with other people, because that's probably what's happening. Yeah, we'll be here every Wednesday for the foreseeable future. I don't even know what episode this is. I know it's high, in the 250s or something. yeah, and hey, it's an opinion show, so don't get it twisted. Keep coming back every Wednesday. For Tina, I'm Rob. We'll talk to you later. Bye.

Tina (: 49:48

That's crazy.

Tina (: 49:59

See ya.